Let's talk about mechanics

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copperpride
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Let's talk about mechanics

Postby copperpride » Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:44 am

The best thing in being in Alpha stage of the game is the moment when You start to wondering if the situation You just saw was the bug or other glitch or maybe a pure intention of game dev's. Most of the people who participate in other game Alpha stages usually try to repeat the process to find out if the result will be the same.

So i make this thread to discuss about it, confront different situations and ideas to better understand the game and the intentions of dev's.

First part: Collision mechanic

This is the first thing in the game which annoy me alot. Basicly it gives me the feeling that I not only fight with opponents but I fight with myself as well. The worse thing that its not in just one particular situation people can learn to avoid. It's like game is based on it.

Let's see:

- Ships crash each other during warping to possition
- Ships crash each other when used in group (lack of formation behaviour)
- Ships can be RAM by enemy if out of ammo

So the question is: what is the purpose of this mechanics ?? What it brings to gameplay and what was intention for implementing it ??

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relampago
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Re: Let's talk about mechanics

Postby relampago » Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:00 am

Hello copperpride and thank you for writing us!

- This one is a bug we will fix.
- We'll add a feature to groups of ships which will allow them to keep formations and don't crash each other.
- In this case, Ramming is a feature which needs to be balanced :)
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copperpride
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Re: Let's talk about mechanics

Postby copperpride » Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:05 am

- We'll add a feature to groups of ships which will allow them to keep formations and don't crash each other.
It's a very complex and important subject so I think players should have a big impact of its mechanics. Keep that in mind.
- In this case, Ramming is a feature which needs to be balanced :)
My first impression was: WTF ?! Really?!

I don't know if it's a good idea in general to keep that implemented. I saw too many times how the not important at first look feature (like this one) was exploited to be a game breaking issue.

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Re: Let's talk about mechanics

Postby copperpride » Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:27 am

Part 2: Friendly Fire

So, I decide to play pvp match .... and boom ..... i accidently click on own ship when controling another one and guess what ...... my first ship open fire to second one and kill him ...... WTF ?! Really ?!

I really dont know what was the intention of implementing such mechanics !! Any ideas ??

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Re: Let's talk about mechanics

Postby relampago » Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:43 am

It's a hardcore real-time wargame! This shouldn't be easy.

Friendly fire is not a very rare thing in games, generally. However, we'll add a feature letting you stop firing a target, of course.
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Re: Let's talk about mechanics

Postby copperpride » Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:24 pm

It's a hardcore real-time wargame! This shouldn't be easy.

Friendly fire is not a very rare thing in games, generally. However, we'll add a feature letting you stop firing a target, of course.
Hold done a minute. If the statement that friendly fire in general is intentional and on game design level it was projected to make game "more hardcore" for me it's a big red warring light: DO NOT PLAY SUCH GAME ANYMORE!

I just finish another PvE battle in which - i can bet - my ships made more damage to "defended" station then enemy.

It's insane to let people such small control of ships and fire and implement FF to make it harder. The result is the game is not harder but more annoying and frustrating and i really know a VERY small group of people who actually enjoy this kind of "entertainment" .

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Prox
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Re: Let's talk about mechanics

Postby Prox » Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:03 pm

This particular mechanic is indeed intentional on game design level. Starfall Tactics is about strategy, careful tactics, and setting up your fleet on the battlefield.

Although some might find this a terrible example: if you position two tanks on the battlefield one behind the other, and fire at the same target, the front tank will get hit.

Similar case here, so you need to control your fleet and really manage how you position everything to make every shot count.

But of course, there are, at this point, some rather difficult aspects to this mechanic which we will review again, and further work on making it more of a Game Feature, rather than an annoyance.

I would like to emphasize that your feedback is much appreciated! It is great to have a player's perspective on the gameplay and its mechanics, especially at such an early stage as pre-alpha. We are reviewing all of our hypotheses as feedback from players flows in, and it is sight for sore eyes (literally, as well as figuratively), to have someone offer a new perspective on a mechanic you thought you were certain about.

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Re: Let's talk about mechanics

Postby copperpride » Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:51 pm

Because sometimes is even better to "start from the end" let me do so...... :)
I would like to emphasize that your feedback is much appreciated! It is great to have a player's perspective on the gameplay and its mechanics, especially at such an early stage as pre-alpha.
First of all it's not my first Alpha and not the first "early" one aswell so "my task" it's pretty obvious for me. I also hope that "we take players feedback" is not an empty phrase.
This particular mechanic is indeed intentional on game design level. Starfall Tactics is about strategy, careful tactics, and setting up your fleet on the battlefield.
This is where I met the first problem in my opinion. The game demand at some point a something more then let's say simple "clicking" on target but dot give tool to execute it.
Although some might find this a terrible example: if you position two tanks on the battlefield one behind the other, and fire at the same target, the front tank will get hit.
I can agree with You only if You add that we talking about simple bullets. We are talking here about guided missiles. It's not the same You must admit....
Similar case here, so you need to control your fleet and really manage how you position everything to make every shot count.
At this stage game don't give tools to do that so statement that it's design that way just to make the game more hardcore is in my opinion pretty silly and naive....
But of course, there are, at this point, some rather difficult aspects to this mechanic which we will review again, and further work on making it more of a Game Feature, rather than an annoyance.
At this point in my opinion there is at least two aspect to rework asap:
- colision system
- friendly fire

Those two are pretty much connected so it should be a bit easier I suppose.
We are reviewing all of our hypotheses as feedback from players flows in, and it is sight for sore eyes (literally, as well as figuratively), to have someone offer a new perspective on a mechanic you thought you were certain about.
From my point of view and my first impressions game has a small dilemma: to be more RTS'ish or more Arcade'ish.
If really depends of what this game You guys want to be.

You can give players bigger control of ships and in that case collision mechanics and friendly fire could be a important factor of gameplay

In other hand You can "demand" more strategical behaviour but for cost of some aspects of "arcade" gameplay.

Quick question. Is there any chance to implement some "replay" system. It really help on that stage to explain and make feedback alot easier to understand.

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Re: Let's talk about mechanics

Postby Prox » Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:56 pm

Quick question. Is there any chance to implement some "replay" system.
Do you mean replaying a match you have just had? If so, then it is definately something we will look into, but a little further down the line.

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Re: Let's talk about mechanics

Postby copperpride » Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:59 pm

Quick question. Is there any chance to implement some "replay" system.
Do you mean replaying a match you have just had? If so, then it is definately something we will look into, but a little further down the line.
Yes. Good to know.


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